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Post by casper171072 on Feb 24, 2018 21:04:59 GMT
I’m going to have the engine out for a rebuild one day soon. I’ve done an A series before. If I’m having it in bits then what mods would you consider on the rebuild just to give it an edge.i don’t intend to bore the block out unless I get it in bits and it clearly needs to be done then I will enlarge it. Also maybe a new cam and have something done to the head. Not looking for a road burner just a little extra punch.
Also who would be a good parts supplier for our engines I think they are the same as early MGA if someone can confirm that.
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Post by canuck on Feb 26, 2018 19:04:21 GMT
Hello Casper The Austin 'B' series engine is highly tunable and FWIW your wallet is probably the only limiter. 
Yes the Riley engine is the same engine as the early MGA power unit but for a camshaft that is bringing the power band to lower RPM's in the Riley.
You may wish to read up on Peter Burgess, he published a 'how to' book, How to Power Tune MGB 4 Cylinder Engines.
The emphasis is along your line of thinking. The preferred process order, 1) increase the compression ratio, 2) improve the gas follow of the cylinder head and exhaust system and 3) add some oomph with a camshaft.
There is a wealth of information available;
BMC factory publications will take you through Stage 1, 2 etc. tuning levels.
Some great vintage stuff;
I have tuned my Riley with the MGA tuning guide to stage 2. I am currently finishing a 18oo engine to plug into the car. The lust for oomph just never dies.
Back to you
Bruce
Edit: forgot to mention there is also carburetor and distributor tuning improvements to be had. All good fun!
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Post by noddy on Feb 28, 2018 21:07:08 GMT
Some good advice from Bruce there.  Having recently built my engine to a 'stage 2' level of tune, I would add from experience these notes ... Breathing is key with these engines - a free flowing air filter (Vokes if you want the trad look or a good pair of K&Ns), gas flowed head with larger valves and a good extractor manifold. As has been discussed on this forum before there are issues - there are no good manifolds off-the-shelf, the standard ones are cr*p, MGA ones are posible - but a tight fit and need mods and a bespoke exhaust system (I have done it, but wouldn't really recommend!). On that note the standard exhaust is a little restrictive. A good camshaft is recommended - best is a Piper BBP270 fast road cam. The standard ones are ok - The MGA one gives better top end power, while the Riley one has better mid range torque! I would also recommend richer needles for the carb and some sort of electronic ignition to unlock the all that potential To be honest - how far so you want to take it? You could drop in a 1622cc MGA engine and immediately get 20+bhp extra ... or use a standard MGB lump and get even more! Anyway you'll have lots of fun working out what to do - and keep asking questions - we're always happy to pass on our experiences (good and bad!). Roger |
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Post by casper171072 on Mar 1, 2018 22:24:01 GMT
Thanks for the advice, very helpful. I have already done the exhaust. I’m luck here in Sheffield there is a local place with a clever mama who builds exhausts. He modified an MGA tubular manifold and created everything else back of that. Is the MGB engine a straight fit then and what is the difference that makes the B engine more powerful other than it being 1800cc
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Post by canuck on Mar 3, 2018 0:39:08 GMT
Is the MGB engine a straight fit then and what is the difference that makes the B engine more powerful other than it being 1800cc Hello Casper Like yourself I grew up with A series engines. Frogeye, A40 and early mini. Great little engines to play with a tune.
The B series is just as much fun to play with.
If you want to 'up the ante' with your Riley engine much can be done as Roger and I point out.
In this case size does matter. and you need to decide what you want. If you want HP the 1489cc gives .048hp per cc whilst the 1789cc gives .052hp per cc, calculated on published hp ratings. In my case I want more torque for the type driving I do. I have re worked my Riley engine over the years with great success but more cc's is what I need. I reworked the cylinder head, upped the compression ratio and sorted the exhaust. Good improvements and I am happy but as Oliver was reprimanded with, MORE? I have a rebuilt, re worked 18G engine about ready to be installed in my Riley. I have perfpormed the same improvements as my Riley engine but I maintain the stock camshaft. I cannot tolerate a lumpy idle. I know I am leaving some horses in the barn but ......... 
You ask and yes, the 1800cc engine in 3 main bearing, (18G, 18GA) is a direct fit with caveats.
You will need to swap rear engine plate, water pump (if long nose), flywheel and clutch assembly from the Riley. Engine mounts and a few other bits. If you choose to use the diaphragm MGB clutch assembly. Then you need to use the MGB front transmission cover and throw out fork and complete clutch with a 10 spline driven plate to match the transmission input shaft. Then the Riley flywheel will need the clutch cover plate locating dowels machined & set.
If the 5 main engine then some fiddling needs to be done. Mostly the spigot bush at the end of the crankshaft of the 1800 engine. Rear plate with rear seal etc. doable but a bit more engineering needed.
So let's remember the description of the 4 stroke engine, suck/squish/bang/blow?
suck = air being drawn into the engine
squish = the air/fuel mixture being compressed
bang = the air/fuel intake charge is ignited
blow = power stroke followed by discharge of the exhaust
You can get some 'zip' from the current Riley engine; or an 18 engine
Breathing is mega important! I wrote an article years ago, (the Riley Record) covering my particular 'improvement' of the intake of air to the carburetors. As Roger states, improved air filters will help. In my case I married K&N filter elements to the Vokes air cleaners. I also installed 'stub stacks' borrowed from the MGB.(below) 
Upping the compression ratio, as I wrote earlier is a verrrrry good idea.
You want the air/fuel mixture to ignite well so having the spark arrive at the right time is important. Removing the Weslake promontory 'peak' in the standard Riley cylinder heads is a good idea and will aid to unshroud the valves helping gases flow.
before
after
Whether electronic or contact breaker the spark must arrive at the right time, and be healthy. Match the advance curve of your distributor to the engine build, (compression ratio and camshaft chosen). The Distributor Doctor will take care of you for sure. Over here we have his 'cousin' to rely on.
salut
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Post by canuck on Mar 3, 2018 0:45:45 GMT
Casper, I had a tuned header made for the Riley. The exit through the body work at the engine bay is a PITA and as Roger points out no off the shelf header exists to address this.
and had it ceramic coated to contain the heat.
I will use a single box exhaust system so should sound the same. The silencer thea Roger installed produces a nice exhaust tone.
back to you
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tjt77
Junior Member
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Post by tjt77 on Jun 19, 2018 1:06:07 GMT
One thing to be aware of is that the BMC 1500cc crankshaft is weak and prone to breakage if power is increased .. there are 'other' BMC engines that are stronger that can be substituted :- firstly the 1622 cc engine.. used to be common in uk..this has a stronger crank and most of the later ones (post'67..commonly prefixed 16V) have better oil and water pump capacities.. by far the 'best' bolt in upgrade is an early MGB engine with 3 main bearing crank..('62-65 .. with 18G or 18GA prefix) this puts you well ahead form the get go :- 95hp v 68 .. cost to rebuild same or less than a 1500.. be aware that ONLY the Riley and MG 3 main bearing engines and the provision for mechanical tach drive.. although all the other BMC 3 main bearing units have the casting for that tach drive housing in place.. the hole for the tach drive gear is not machined out in them though..
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Post by casper171072 on Jun 23, 2018 18:32:18 GMT
I’m still unsure which route to go and will be giving it more thought before I commit. I have to say the car is running so good at the moment, just done 500 miles over the weekend and it never missed a beat!
The head is still only leaded fuel though and she does have a number of minor oil leaks from various places that will need sorting and if one of them is the rear crank seal then it would be best as an engine out job which is then the opportunity to breath a little extra life into her. On the other hand and 1800 MGB engine could go in instead at that point? The 3 bearing ones though are becoming very hard to find and go for a lot of money now so cost would be very prohibitive. I think my options will be to keeps things original with a little gentle breathing on the head and other mods of that nature to improved the general flow or an 1800 5 bearing swap with the mods that would entail
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Post by canuck on Jun 23, 2018 21:55:26 GMT
she does have a number of minor oil leaks from various places that will need sorting and if one of them is the rear crank seal
Unfortunately the 1489 cc engine does not have a positive oil seal at the rear of crankshaft, rather uses the Archimedes screw approach. Not a brilliant design but does serve to keep most of the oil in the sump. FWIW the 3 main 1798 cc engine doesn't have a proper oil seal either.
a prime leak is the front timing cover at the crankshaft. This old style felt gland van dry up and stop doing what it is supposed to do. One can renew the felt, or swap over a timing cover from another engine that uses a proper oil seal. If you go this route ensure you match the lower pulley/damper to match the timing marks on the cover.
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Post by casper171072 on Jun 24, 2018 19:46:35 GMT
I think I have leaks from both of those, and the sump, the gear box somewhere and maybe the oil filter housing, hard to tell with all the oil everywhere, least it’s stopped the car from rusting 😊
If I go original with the standard engine I will do what I fdid with my a30 a few years back. I stripped the engine in situe sent the head of cleaned everything up and re gasketed everthing around the block which remained in. If all is well with the block all well and good if not as it was with the A30 I will lower the block out from under the car when it is raised up.
Lest then if everything is ok I can do it bit by bit when I take car off the road in the winter. If I need to re do the block I can get it out without having to hire a engine crane.
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tjt77
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Post by tjt77 on Jun 30, 2018 22:27:45 GMT
As regards oil leaks from rear main or front seal:- the most common cause of these oil leaks is general engine wear.. if you have those black spots on the ground where car is parked, the first thing to check for diagnosis is oil pressure.. if it drops off more the 25lbs when hot V the cold engine reading,, and is very low at idle, there is almost certainly wear in the crankshaft main bearings..(regardless of what you do to try and stop the leaks, it wont be effective until the 'actual' issue is addressed..cause and effect..) there are aftermarket kits for adding a rear main bearing seal which require some machining.... and as is mentioned above the old felt seal on timing cover can be replaced by fitting later cover and its seal (the felt seal was phased out around '62 and replaced by a more modern positive 'lip' type seal across the range of BMC B series engines.. just use the cover from an MGB to achieve this.. make sure to have a cover than matches your front pulley timing mark.. later covers had the timing marks on COVER visible from top of engine, and the slot in the front pulley moved to match)
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Post by casper171072 on Jul 31, 2018 11:27:46 GMT
It's been a while since I looked at my original post as I have been enjoying the car as it is rather than thinking of taking it apart again!
I have got the offer through a relative of a late model MGB engine for cheap cheap money so would be foolish to not take that on as my little project for the 1.5. I know as easy as it is to get the engine, fitting it to the car is not straightforward due to it being a five bearing unit. The engine is going to be fully stripped rebuilt first of course. Can anyone offer any advice or a step by step guide as to what I will need to do to make it fit the car with the standard 1.5 gearbox. What different bits I might need and what mods might need to be made etc.
My car is a 1960 Mk1 should it make any difference. Thanks in advance
Richard
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Post by canuck on Jul 31, 2018 23:39:30 GMT
Hello Richard, Don't you just love family!  so a solution looms, cool! This is not as straight forward as the 3 main fit, you will need to scrounge some bits, open you wallet but only slightly, but can be made to work . I will assume that you will be keeping the Riley gearbox, so; You will need the Riley engine rear plate from your engine so the engine will bolt up to the transmission. The 5 main late engine uses a proper oil seal at the crank shaft so you will need to bore out the center hole to accept the MGB engine rear seal. At the installation of the rear plate to the engine there is a ‘drain’ slot in the rear plate that you should fill with automotive RTV. You will see this when you have it all apart. At the front of the engine, you will need to swap over the Riley engine front plate to use the rectangular engine mounts, (the late MGB used round mounts). I think it will be nice to use the MGB front damper pulley & timing chain cover that will place the timing marks on top, versus the Riley ones being below. This is a nice to have, and Riley dog nut will fit. You will need a flywheel from the intermediate year MGB, (I think 1964-1967?) as the existing Riley flywheel will not bolt up to the 5 main crank shaft. Because the 5 main flywheel is used you will need the MGB clutch pressure plate and release bearing. You will also need a gearbox front cover and clutch release arm from the early/intermediate year (1962-1967) MGB, as the geometry of the clutch plate is different. You can keep/use your pivot bolt, rubber boot, slave cylinder and pushrod. There may be some interference of clutch cover plate with the bell housing so pay attention. You can reuse your clutch driven plate to match the splines, (10 for MK 1 Riley) of the input shaft of the transmission. The end of the crankshaft will require a new spigot adapter bushing to marry the larger bore of crank shaft to small diameter spigot on gearbox input shaft. I think Moss sells this off the shelf Moss Motors sells one, however a simple bush can be had from a local supply shop, 5/8-ID x 1-1/8-OD x 1" long.. Keep in mind you cannot use the Riley installed mechanical tachometer, as the later engine does not have the drive. You can search out an electric tachometer from '65-'67 MGB, why? because the tachometer is + earth like your Riley. You will be able fit your inertia starter from the Riley. I think it best to fit the Riley water pump to avoid interference to the radiator. I may have missed something so please check my process. Hopefully someone else will be along to offer you advice. Back to you Bruce |
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tjt77
Junior Member
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Post by tjt77 on Aug 6, 2018 21:00:34 GMT
Just to add a few things to Bruces informative reply:- often an MGB engine is the most practical and economical route to take.. the 3 main MGB unit is a direct bolt in and as such is the preference..you get an instant +/-40% more BHP + extra torque as well as a much more durable engine to boot. In Uk there are likely good number of the later 1622cc '16V' engines as used in the Sherpa van etc.. also a vast improvement over the original 1489cc unit and much stronger as regards crankshaft.. The 5 main MGB engine is far more common and hence cheaper to source.. but you do need the early 5 main flywheel ('62-'67) as the post '67 is much larger diameter.. as stated above one needs the original riley engine back plate 'modified' to take the oil seal (same backlplate used on multiple 'other' BMC vehicles as well). ..and the special spigot bush for 1 st motion shaft as supplied by Moss motors (their part number is 330-570) Moss also supplies a NEW backplate for this conversion.. but its more outlay than modifying the original backplate ( +/-$440 in USA) its also wise to go over to the MGB diaphragm clutch for lighter pedal.. for this one needs the front plate of an MGB Mk1 gearbox and the actual lever as well( different pivot point) .. as for the tachometer.. the best bet is to fit a modern electrical conversion into the existing riley tach body ..reason for this is that the original 'smith' tach used on the MGB is notoriously inaccurate and is not very reliable either..
Im considering fitting a 5 speed in my next 1.5 project.. this will utilized a kit for an MGA to take the popular ford type 9 gearbox.. and modifying the bell housing supplied with the kit to fit around the Riley steering rack.. OR.I may fit an early MGB overdrive to the existing riley gearbox.. unsure as yet.
adding power adds further potentilal problems.. the rear axle shafts being the most common weakness to address.. fortunately there are many options for improving front brakes and the conversions for the Morris minor fits our cars ..
have fun and good luck..
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tjt77
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by tjt77 on Aug 7, 2018 1:05:43 GMT
Just to add a few things to Bruces informative reply:- often an MGB engine is the most practical and economical route to take.. the 3 main MGB unit is a direct bolt in and as such is the preference..you get an instant +/-40% more BHP + extra torque as well as a much more durable engine to boot. In Uk there are likely good number of the later 1622cc '16V' engines as used in the Sherpa van etc.. also a vast improvement over the original 1489cc unit and much stronger as regards crankshaft.. The 5 main MGB engine is far more common and hence cheaper to source.. but you do need the early 5 main flywheel ('62-'67) as the post '67 is much larger diameter.. as stated above one needs the original riley engine back plate 'modified' to take the oil seal (same backlplate used on multiple 'other' BMC vehicles as well). ..and the special spigot bush for 1 st motion shaft as supplied by Moss motors (their part number is 330-570) Moss also supplies a NEW backplate for this conversion.. but its more outlay than modifying the original backplate ( +/-$440 in USA) its also wise to go over to the MGB diaphragm clutch for lighter pedal.. for this one needs the front plate of an MGB Mk1 gearbox and the actual lever as well( different pivot point) .. as for the tachometer.. the best bet is to fit a modern electrical conversion into the existing riley tach body ..reason for this is that the original 'smith' tach used on the MGB is notoriously inaccurate and is not very reliable either..
Im considering fitting a 5 speed in my next 1.5 project.. this will utilized a kit for an MGA to take the popular ford type 9 gearbox.. and modifying the bell housing supplied with the kit to fit around the Riley steering rack.. OR.I may fit an early MGB overdrive to the existing riley gearbox.. unsure as yet.
adding power adds further potentilal problems.. the rear axle shafts being the most common weakness to address.. fortunately there are many options for improving front brakes and the conversions for the Morris minor fits our cars ..
have fun and good luck..
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so a solution looms, cool!