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Post by sgives on Jan 4, 2022 16:48:24 GMT
Hello. I've just sort-of inherited a 1.5. My grandmother bought it new in 1961 and it has been in the family since then though it's been off the road since 1998. Total mileage is about 54,000 and it is very much as it left the factory (with added rust). Bodywork is the priority but, remembering the dreadful drum brakes and ropey lever arm shockers on my early Midget, I think I want to make it more suitable for today's traffic. From studying these pages and other articles, it seems that a disc brake conversion and telescopic shock absorbers are sensible upgrades. Do others have a view?
Thanks in anticipation.
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kiwimc
Junior Member
Posts: 84
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Post by kiwimc on Jan 5, 2022 0:44:39 GMT
Welcome. Hope there isn't too much rust. Disc brake upgrade is good - you'll get braking improvements and probably save some un-sprung weight (sorry I can't quantify that). I think ESM Minor conversion is probably bolt straight on. Telescopic shocks probably unnecessary if the standard lever arms have correct oil and aren't knackered.
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Post by canuck on Jan 5, 2022 15:44:16 GMT
Hello sgives, Welcome aboard and I advise you to get ready for many smiles per miles! Cheers to Nana for holding on to the Riley. I think the most return and is a must as an 'upgrade' should be wheels and tires. These are what keep you on the road, wet or dry, slow or fast conditions and slow the car down. The factory fitted road wheel at 3" wide is a devil, (read impossible) to fit a modern tire. There is an aftermarket 4.5" wide road wheel that will accept a proper size modern tire. These new wheels also have a safety bead which is a good thing. These wheels accept OE the rimbellishers and hubcap so no one needs to know. The brakes of the Riley if in good fettle are more than adequate. The fitting of disc brakes (I suppose you are asking up front?) will only add a resistance to fading, as the friction surface of the disc pad versus the brake shoe are virtually identical. If the dampers are in good nick they should provide adequate ride quality. If leaking they will need attention. Remember that the front damper provides the upper swivel pin trunnion link to the body. Not sure what telescope damper options one has? For the MK1 the ride height is a tad high. although very livable. Fitting a anti roll bar up front will aid enormously in dealing with the 'rolly polly' experience in cornering. I maintain the hydraulic dampers, I lowered the ride height per spec of MK 3, bought and installed wider wheels with modern tires and fitted an ARB. This transformed the handling and feel of the car. I am located in Canada so big roads at high speeds is the norm. I feel very comfortable driving on these major autoroutes at 70mph entertaining the other drivers. My advice is to get the old girl ambulatory, address the safety issues, and drive about to understand what 1950's motoring was all about. This one-point-five is and always was a family saloon car with high hopes. Salut Bruce
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Post by sgives on Jan 7, 2022 9:18:28 GMT
Thanks both. Valuable opinions. I think the plan - post bodywork - will be both the 4.5" rims (tyres are a LOT less expensive for those than for the standard wheels too) and the disc brakes. I accept, Bruce, that the drums are fine on open Canadian roads (on which I've driven a few thousand miles) but those on my Midget, admittedly 45 years ago, faded badly after about the fourth heavy application. Here in the UK, with 32m other cars on our twisty little roads I think I'll play safe.
I'll post some pictures of the body when we start to dismantle it. I suspect it's going to be expensive....!
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Post by ozieagle on Jan 7, 2022 21:35:49 GMT
Hi,
I don't have a 1.5, but a Wolseley 1500, a very similar car, except for the hotter engine and Girling brakes. As Bruce said, the standard brakes are more than adequate. I can easily lock up my wheels, and anymore than that is waste. I've had the Wolseley for mor ethan 10 years and ages ago I had an Austin Lancer, again a very similar car. I never experienced brake fade in either. The only time I did experience brake fade was in a Morris 1100, that was fitted with disks, and was due to the wrong brake pads I fitted, they cooked the front end.
I'm an unstoppable improver, and have posted many articles on what I've done, on the Wolseley 1500 forum. Look up my post, under ozieagle.
Herb
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Post by canuck on Jan 7, 2022 22:34:26 GMT
sgives, (sorry no name yet) Here is a link to a recent thread on remedial tin work that some of us have undertaken. This may serve to inspire or perhaps scare the living daylights out of you? rileymotorclub.proboards.com/thread/1042/photo-requestI agree disc brakes are a 'modern' add on for sure. I don't recall the size of the Midget drum brakes but the Riley brakes are impressive. At diameter 9" front and 8" rear drums with 2.5" and 1.5" wide lining respectively make for a surprisingly good grip. I show the 'monster' front lining below. As I suggested drive about and get a feel for the car. This is an old car and driving enthusiastically safely will add to the re-learning curve. You may be pleasantly surprised with the braking performance. Wolseley's and Morris's would die for this quality of braking! salut B PS: I have a couple of panels left over that you may need? I list them in the for sale site below.
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Post by ozieagle on Jan 8, 2022 0:03:21 GMT
My 2 bob's worth on braking. The area of the drum / shoe interface has nothing to do with braking force, only the coefficient of friction between the two (physics 101). The larger area only is good for better cooling and longevity, less wear.
Herb
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Post by cooper on Jan 8, 2022 16:53:00 GMT
HI GIVE THE DISC BRAKE CONVERSION SOME CONSIDERATION, MY RILEY WAS RESTORED WITH SPECIAL ATTENTION MADE TO SAFETY. THE STANDARD BRAKES HAD THE BACKPLATES POWDER COATED NEW OLD STOCK WHEEL CYLINDERS WITH NEW SEAL KITS FITTED, GENUINE BMC BRAKESHOES,NEW REAR DRUMS MASTER CYLINDER AND BRAKE PIPES ALSO A SERVO KIT INSTALLED. THE CAR WAS MOT AT OUR LOCAL GARAGE AND THE TESTER WAS IMPRESSED WITH THE CAR AND BRAKES. AFTER A COUPLE OF CLOSE CALLS WITH PEOPLE PULLING OUT IN FRONT OF ME, AND THE RILEY HAVING TO BRAKE HARD TO AVOID AN ACCIDENT, I CHECKED AND READUSTED THE BRAKES EVERY THING WAS FINE UNTILL A COUPLE OF WEEKS LATER WHEN I WAS TRAVELING DOWN A ROAD CLOSE TO HOME, CONDITIONS WERE DRY, THE PERSON IN FRONT DECIDED TO DO AN EMERGENCY STOP IN HER 2 YEAR OLD MODERN FOR NO APPARENT REASON, I WAS TRAVELLING AT ABOUT 50MPH AND HAD TO SLAM ON THE BRAKES THE RILEY LOCKED ITS WHEELS AND THIS UNSETTLED THE CAR CAUSING ME TO DO SOME EVASIVE DRIVING TO AVOID A CRASH.
SORRY THIS A BIT LONG WINDED,BUT THE RILEYS DRUM BRAKES WERE GREAT IN THE 60S AND FINE IN NORMAL USE.BUT IT'S DIFFICULT TO PREDICT WHAT IS GOING ON IN TODAY TRAFFIC.
I FITTED THE [ FORD TYPE CONVERSION ] VENTED DISCS TAPER ROLLER BEARINGS AND HAVE BEEN IMPRESSED WITH THE RESULTS.
DAVID
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Post by ozieagle on Jan 8, 2022 21:00:25 GMT
THE PERSON IN FRONT DECIDED TO DO AN EMERGENCY STOP IN HER 2 YEAR OLD MODERN FOR NO APPARENT REASON, I WAS TRAVELLING AT ABOUT 50MPH AND HAD TO SLAM ON THE BRAKES THE RILEY LOCKED ITS WHEELS AND THIS UNSETTLED THE CAR CAUSING ME TO DO SOME EVASIVE DRIVING TO AVOID A CRASH. DAVID That's what I'm saying, once you've locked up the wheels the brakes have done their job. Better brakes aren't going to make any difference, locked wheels is locked wheels. It is then up to the rubber / asphalt to do their bit, and that is where your problem was, not with the brakes. Herb
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Post by cooper on Jan 9, 2022 11:55:40 GMT
HI HERB STANDARD RILEY 1.5 BRAKES WILL LOCK UP IN A EMERGENCY STOP SITUATION. AND AS YOU'VE MENTIONED YOUR IN A SKID,THE DISC BRAKE CONVERSION MAKES BRAKING FROM HIGHER SPEEDS MUCH MORE CONTROLLED ALLOWING THE VEHICLE TO PULL UP STRAIGHT AND WITHOUT LOCKING WHEEL'S, ANOTHER GOOD POINT WITH THE DISC KIT I FITTED YOU CAN DISPENSE WITH THE WHEEL SPACERS' NECESSARY WHEN RUNNING RADIAL TYRES
CHEERS DAVID.
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Post by canuck on Jan 9, 2022 15:14:04 GMT
Yes I agree, the brakes stop the wheels turning. More rubber on the road will provide an improved stopping experience. This is exactly the reason I mentioned improving upon the OE wheels and tires in my first post. Installing a disc brake kit without more rubber is not a good recipe. David, curiously these wheels and tires I mention there is no interference with the tie rod end as happens with the skinny OE wheels and 'oversized' tires. Spacers on the OE 3/8" diameter wheel studs doesn't set well with me either. Anecdote; When I first received my car >12 years ago it needed waking up after a +25 year slumber. I put it back together for road safety check, with the goal being to want to experience what it was like to drive about in the 50's with these cars. I installed correct size narrow crossply tires on the OE wheels. Yikes! what an experience. Scary is the only word that comes to mind. I did go the distance with these tires and wore them out but not without more than a few white knuckle moments both in cornering and braking. One learns to be cautious. Good discussion, and I may just be too 'frugal' to splash out for the front disc conversion? To be continued. Salut Bruce
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Post by sgives on Mar 29, 2022 15:58:14 GMT
Gents,
Any views on whether to fit a servo or not to fit a servo to the (new disc) brakes? I'm advised that most modern servos are imported from the far east and prone to failure on a depressingly regular basis.
Thanks.
Simon
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Post by sgives on Jun 22, 2022 15:37:38 GMT
Hi all,
It's been a while and progress has been slow (very slow) but the body has turned out to be in quite good shape with very modest structural welding needed.
To mechanical matters: I want to install a five-speed gearbox. A couple of companies market conversion kits to allow the installation of either a Ford gearbox or that from the Mazda MX5. The point is that those kits are almost exclusively for MG's, the 'A' and 'B' but I'm told that the early MGA and the Riley 1.5 shared a gearbox. Logically - if logic is applicable to anything BMC ever did - a gearbox conversion kit for an MGA 1500 should also fit the Riley. Any views or information gratefully received.
Thanks
Simon
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Post by ozieagle on Jun 23, 2022 0:17:17 GMT
Hi, I investigated the 5 speed option, for my 1500 Wolseley, and ran into a brick wall. The Riley / Wolseley have a bell housing with steep front and a notch to clear the steering rack. 5 speed boxes won't fit under the rack. Herb Attachments:
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Post by canuck on Jun 23, 2022 13:54:34 GMT
Hello Simon, Nice to read of your progress. Let me provide you with something to chew on, and not wishing to discourage you in any way. Our Riley seriously lacks oumph! and I write this in the kindest way. With a regular tune Riley engine the factory provided 68 HP, with 3.72:1 ratio differential gearing. Meeting the demand of an overdrive gear, pushing our little rocket through the ground level atmosphere I think is a tall order. I don't think one will be able to benefit the transmission upgrade, if one can be found and fitted. Fitting a MGB 1800cc power unit, with 95 HP will go a long way to adding torque which I think the 1500cc Riley lacks. Of course even this will not compensate for the mega long YAWN between 2nd & 3rd gear ratios. salut Bruce
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