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Post by jonnyb on Jan 5, 2023 19:26:01 GMT
Fitting the reels on the parcel shelf was more of a challenge due to the limited space and having to angle the reels upwards to clear the upper edge of the seat back. The location of the anchor here is a bit tight and drilling the holes rather tricky. I chose to use one of the threaded plates which just sits in a strong position centrally between the side plates of the boot lid mechanism. Fortunately, too, it doesn't impede the closing of the boot lid, there being still about 10mm clearance between the anchor and the boot lid mechanism. Because the reel is angled upwards, as an engineer, I do not like the load path from the belt through the reel to the anchor because the offset creates a moment on the anchor in addition to the sheer applied to the bolt. I may revisit this to see if I can improve that. However, it does seem pretty solid so I guess I am just being picky; I can't imagine it failing completely!
Also as you can see I made a pig's ear of fitting the parcel shelf trim around the brackets, fortunately not too obvious when the seat is back in place!
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Post by vue from the north on Jan 5, 2023 21:41:38 GMT
kudos for having a bash yourself !
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Post by tonyhosk on Jan 5, 2023 23:13:51 GMT
What an excellent well thought out and very professional result - I also like the matching blue belt material.
How did the front ones go?
Tony
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Post by jonnyb on Jan 6, 2023 16:59:58 GMT
Thanks guys for your kind comments. Tony I still have to complete the front ones, though I did do the centre stalks. My assistant (to whom I am married) was available, so I did both the rear buckles and front stalks at the same time from under the car. After 51 years she still humours me!
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Post by ozieagle on Jan 12, 2023 21:52:49 GMT
Hi, I've been agonising over whether to mention this or not. I don't wish to rain on your parade, so to speak. My conscience finally won, as I don't want anyone injured, because I didn't say anything. That rear belt mounting looks awfully weak, I doubt it could restrain an adult, effectively. Also, as far as I know, inertial belts need to be mounted either vertically or horizontally, to work correctly. The mounting depends on the reel, whether it is designed for horizontal or vertical. Herb Attachments:
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Post by jonnyb on Jan 13, 2023 12:50:21 GMT
Hi Herb I respect and appreciate you expressing your concerns. That is the ethos I was brought up with in the aircraft industry, so thanks. Regarding the angle of the reel in relation to retraction of the belt. Securon list the 254 belt for the Riley 1.5 fitted to the rear parcel shelf. It is designed for rear seat fitment with the reel mounted at any angle not just vertical or horizontal. It contains an inertial pendulum which locks the belt, provided the pendulum itself is vertical. The pendulum is contained in a housing which has 2 axes of adjustment to bring the pendulum back to vertical once the reel is mounted. The following link shows the fitting and adjustment of the reel. www.securon.co.uk/seat_belts_firstframe.htm Once you have clicked on the link go to the "FITTING" tab on the left then go to the "FITTING INSTRUCTIONS" for the 254 belt It also notes there that it may be necessary to use brackets to clear nearby bodywork/trim and various shaped brackets are provided in the kit. I have tested the locking of the reel and it works fine once the pendulum orientation is set as described in the fitting instructions.
With the seat back in position the load path looks better and the reel is very secure. However, I am still reviewing this arrangement and considering whether a static belt would be more suitable. Whatever I finally end up with needs to work with the grandchildren's safety seats and be the safest I can make this 1960 car.
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Post by jonnyb on Jan 13, 2023 18:49:30 GMT
After a number of sessions, this week, finally today, during a dry interlude, I was able to complete the installation of the front seat belts. Having already installed the centre stalks on the tunnel the next step was the anchor in the B pillar. Dropping a plate down inside the B pillar from the gutter above was abandoned because, in spite of much probing with a stiff piece of wire, I could not find a hole into the top of the pillar. I also chose not to bolt right through the pillar (as described in the WSM) because I was unable to find any suitable female bolts and, even if I did, they would have to be shortened to suit and I no longer have access to a lathe. Also I don't like opening external holes in the body, if it can be avoided, or leaving a bolt head very close to the edges of both doors. I decided to use a threaded plate inside the pillar inserted through a hole below the anchor position. I did some trials in cardboard to find that the smallest hole I could insert the 25mm wide plate through was 28mm. The nearest standard hole cutter size is 29mm and cutting that 50mm below the anchor hole made the insertion process comfortable (sorry)! I felt some trepidation cutting this hole but using cutting fluid and a slow speed, with my drill set to screwdriving mode, with a moderate torque, it was quite easy and quick, phew! As the car is fully trimmed I used a newspaper "bag" to catch the swarf.
Once the three holes were done, time to insert the threaded plate. The small hole in the middle was for an M6 setscrew which would locate and hold the plate in situ if the main anchor bolt had to be removed.
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Post by jonnyb on Jan 13, 2023 19:03:19 GMT
I used a piece of stiff wire to insert the plate using the top plain 6mm hole in the plate. Because the inside face of the pillar is slightly curved and the reinforcing plate flat I bedded it in Tiger Seal. The anchor and set screw in place. The set screw head is shallower than the spacer on the anchor bolt so it doesn't impinge on the sash plate when it rotates.
The 29mm hole is obscured behind the webbing but I have some blanking grommets on order for that. Overall this stage went as well as I could hope. There was certainly plenty of head scratching before I dived in! Just a final edit on this. I chose 29mm because it was the smallest standard hole cutter that would allow the 25mm wide plate to be inserted. However, when I came to look for grommets to blank off the holes it was hard to find 29mm (32mm is a standard size). Eventually I did find a 29mm silicon rubber bung from a telescope firm who stocked them in 1mm increments.
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Post by tonyhosk on Jan 13, 2023 22:25:53 GMT
Oh, that is really well thought out - congratulations!
Tony
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Post by vue from the north on Jan 13, 2023 22:37:34 GMT
if your at the manchester classic car show in june at the rugby club hope to see you & have an inspection, every credit for doing it yourself kudos
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Post by jonnyb on Jan 14, 2023 12:57:26 GMT
So final set of pics to show the reel position for the front belts. There were two options, for the anchor bolt, that I considered. The position adopted for later cars with in situ anchors as shown in Tony's picture earlier. This anchor is on the inner face of the inner cill and structurally ideal, but the access hole is quite a long way aft of this to enable a threaded plate to be inserted (I tried!). I could have bored another hole nearer, as I did on the B pillar, but I was loathe to pepper the inner cill with too many holes! The second option was to use the location given in the WSM for earlier cars. This was anchoring through the floor "as close as possible to the inner cill". This is the option I chose, allowing relatively easy access both internally and externally and avoiding compromising the inner cill.
My thanks to Herb and Tony for pictures and ideas, they were very helpful, as was lots of research on the net in general. I am happy with the results. The belts are comfortable in use and I think dramatically improve the safety for my passengers and me. Shunts are rare but I would not sleep easy without the belts fitted. Inevitably, with our old cars, there are compromises. My decision to use inertia belts made fitting more difficult than would have been the case if I had fitted static belts. Static belts could have been fitted with ring or U bolts which would have used less space and reduced the offsets in the load paths. Inertia and static belts both have their pros and cons particularly in relation to child seats. I will update this thread if I decide to make any further changes. Hopefully this thread will provide food for thought for anyone else planning to retro fit seat belts.
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Post by cygnet61 on Jan 15, 2023 13:42:06 GMT
Hello Johnathan
Thank you very much for creating this thread. I also have a Mk2 and would like to have front seat belts fitted. I had thought it was very involved due to there being no anchor points on the vehicle but you’ve shown me that it is a much more manageable task.
Regards Gordon
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Post by jonnyb on Jan 15, 2023 14:47:44 GMT
Hi Gordon, I am glad this has been of interest to you. If you need further details feel free to ask. I am near Stockport if you wanted to come and inspect. Cheers, Jonathan
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Post by canuck on Jan 15, 2023 20:04:37 GMT
Well done Johnathan! Nice to see a job to completion and proof that it wasn't simple but you make it look easy. Bravo! A segue and apologies up front to all. Could you tell me where you procured your rear screen rubber seal?. PM if you want to keep this thread clean. B
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Post by vue from the north on Jan 15, 2023 21:39:19 GMT
Well done Johnathan! Nice to see a job to completion and proof that it wasn't simple but you make it look easy. Bravo! A segue and apologies up front to all. Could you tell me where you procured your rear screen rubber seal?. PM if you want to keep this thread clean. B i think from memory the club sell the screen rubber you can have a gander at the spares list for 1.5 through the website (but phone up for ordering )
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