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Post by canuck on Mar 4, 2024 14:53:57 GMT
Following on from this excellent exchange a while back, rileymotorclub.proboards.com/thread/1148/riley-point-fuel-tank-adviceI decided to tuck into my damaged fuel tank replacement. I procurred a replacement tank years ago and painted it in preparation for install. As most of these underbody tasks this is proving to be a challenge. The front of the tank is bashed in and the fuel delivery and drain plug nuts are not cooperating at all. After a few weeks and a great many applications of PB Blaster neither nut will shift. My course of action is to remove the tank and work on the bench. The nuts & bolts on the brackets to the car are resisting but these should remove without too much grief. I bought a 'nut and nipple' and made a new fuel delivery line prior to removing the tank. This worked out well. If I am not able to bend this new line to fit, I will use a union to join new to the existing. More to follow Bruce
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Post by canuck on Mar 4, 2024 15:08:00 GMT
The pick up tube as I understand sits to a recess in the drain plug? and a mesh filter is part of the drain plug? So; Is there a recommended height for this pick up tube? My one on the 'new' tank moves around until I tighten the nut & olive at the other end. I will guess this will all become obvious when I successfully remove the drain plug of my old tank? My plan to remove the recalcitrant drain plug is to cut around the area and split the threaded collar to unwind it. Make sense? I will let you all know how this works out. For the fuel pick up tube, I chased the thread in my 'new' tank and did a check fit of the new fuel line. All is well. More to follow salut Bruce
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Post by 2robert4 on Mar 4, 2024 15:23:26 GMT
Hi Bruce
Hope that all goes well with the drain plug, I shall watch your comments with interest as I will have to remove and clean my tank soon and also have a spare tank that that is ready to fit. Do you know what thread the sender unit threads are BA or something similar? My personal opinion is that they are the same as the early Mini.
Good luck
NP
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Post by canuck on Mar 4, 2024 19:30:31 GMT
Hi Bruce Hope that all goes well with the drain plug, I shall watch your comments with interest as I will have to remove and clean my tank soon and also have a spare tank that that is ready to fit. Do you know what thread the sender unit threads are BA or something similar? My personal opinion is that they are the same as the early Mini. Good luck NP Hello Nigel, I will post when I tackle the drain plug. Some weeks away still as life will interfere with my Riley time. I agree, I also thought these screws were BA, #3? I think you are spot on, these screws are Mini, Midget, Farina, etc. application, the BMC parts bin at work. My ones, 99.99% original are pan head, (actually hex head?) with slot, so #ARG923. My thinking is instead to wrestle with these screws, and bugg*r the slots, I would buy new up front. I received a round head Philips/Pozi type. I was able to spin a 8-32 UNF nut to them. These screws thread into the tank flange fine, so ?? appears to be BA and UNF are compatible? If I am able to unwind my originals I will have a closer look. I ordered a couple of gaskets as well. FWIW we are able to order original screws #ARG923, with the pan/slot head if originality is the goal. Salut Bruce
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Post by 2robert4 on Mar 5, 2024 9:26:59 GMT
Thanks for the info Bruce I will follow up on this and let everyone know.
NP
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Post by canuck on Mar 5, 2024 14:03:38 GMT
Nigel, For me to find bits on this side of the pond is interesting and sometimes a challenge. I enjoy the search and learn a lot along the way. Interesting to note, during my search on this project, I located a rubber gasket? both for the sender to tank and the sender cover. The cork gasket for sender to tank #2H1082 is common. The 'rubber' ones #2H1082N may interest someone. I found these at Brown & Gammons site, and to me the part number suffix suggests a vendor specific 'improvement'? Salut Bruce
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Post by 2robert4 on Mar 5, 2024 14:45:37 GMT
Thanks Bruce
I have ordered a rubber gasket and some stainless bolts from Brown and Gammons so I have them ready once the job is started.
NP
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Post by cygnet61 on Mar 5, 2024 17:36:06 GMT
My sender unit has been leaking for a while and my temporary fix was to keep the fuel level below it. I bought a cork gasket and then saw the rubber ones Bruce has mentioned so I got them as well. Supposedly, they cope better with modern (ethanol) fuel. All I need now is to find someone to fit it as it looks like an easy job with the car on a lift but not so lying underneath. While they are at it they can fit the stainless steel exhaust system I’ve had delivered this week and hopefully bleed the brakes properly for me as I have been unable to do so.
There’s always something needing doing!
Cheers Gordon
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Post by canuck on Mar 5, 2024 20:05:48 GMT
Gordon, Nice to read I am not the only one with a 'to do' list. Let me ask. Do you think this leak is at the gasket joint? at one or more of the screws? The gasket on my car is original cork, (I think) and has survived the bashing over the years. Interesting to find out when I take it all to bits in a couple of weeks. Yes access to this sender on the car is tricky, small opening to work with, and probably will require to remove the front hanging support? #4 and another pair of hands is helpful. Salut B
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Post by cygnet61 on Mar 6, 2024 17:39:46 GMT
Hello Bruce
I’m not sure where the leak is exactly; I just assumed it would be the gasket. I’ll get it changed and hope that does the job. I didn’t realise the hanging bracket needs to come off; thanks for the heads-up.
Cheers Gordon
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Post by canuck on Mar 12, 2024 0:59:26 GMT
I was able to 'enjoy' some garage time with the Riley. I succeeded to remove the fuel tank. Yikes, what a struggle. Many of the 60 year old nuts and bolts offered resistance. PB Blaster is my new best friend and together we got it done. The tank is due to retire for sure, and I am glad I finally got around to doing this. The inside is mega rusty with flakes of metal floating about, just waiting to wreak havoc with fuel flow. I put a hair dryer to the rubber seal around the filler neck in order to soften it up. This worked and it slid off the filler tube without damage. I needed to cut the fuel line, the nut into the tank wasn't cooperating. The tiny nut on the wire terminal for the sender unwound with a 7/32" spanner. Access was a bugg*r working through the opening in the bracket. I put a jack under the tank for support, loosened the nuts holding the front bracket to the boot floor and the rear bracket to the body seam and lowered the tank. The old tank is scruffy indeed, it will find a home at the metal scrapper, and will probably be recylcled into a KIA. Once on the bench, I was able to wind out the fuel line nut using a 14" long pipe wrench but the drain plug wasn't accessible due to the dented tank, so onto plan 'B'. Plan 'B' is to drill a series of increasing in size holes around the plug insert until it is free. A little cut chisel work and out it came. Last is the plug itself, with the integral screen. As I expected would happen, the screen destroyed itself on the way out so I will need to come up with a solution for this. I cleaned up the threads to have a look at what I need to do to salvage the plug, which is the ultimate goal. I will need to cut around the nut somehow to remove the threaded ring of the old fuel tank. Another day for this. Bruce
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Post by 2robert4 on Mar 12, 2024 8:11:01 GMT
Looks like this job is a a lot of aggravation and not something to be done over a weekend as there are too many areas that can be a problem. I would like to know if anyone has yet managed to remove their drain plug without ripping it out of the tank due to corroded threads. Well done to Bruce as it would appear that this job fought him all the way and the information given will be a help to us all.
NP
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Post by canuck on Mar 12, 2024 15:14:36 GMT
Thanks Nigel, you are spot on, this removal was a 2 cuppa job, and a test of patience and character. I will continue on with the ugly; After about an hour of surgery with a metal hack saw, file and cold chisel, I succeeded to free the plug. I damaged the threads of the plug slightly but as this is simply a plug and not a critical load nut, I think I am good to go and reuse, thank goodness. I 'straightened' the threads with a thread file. The pick up tube strainer did not survive this intervention. I will need to source some sort of replacement strainer, and a copper sealing washer, I damaged the existing one. These washer seem to be available and the pick up tube in the tank is 0.3125" OD tube. I will let you all know how my search plays out. Nigel, I think if my tank was not so badly damaged I may have been able to unwind this plug, despite the beat up state it is in. The dimension across the flats = 33mm or 1.30". I don't have any spanner or socket this size and suggest this may be some BA or Whitworth dimension plug? I think if the plug has straight, undamaged hex flats, a modified spanner or the like will work? Once the plug was cleaned up I was able to tighten the plug into my 'new' tank threads using a fair size Crescent wrench. Good news at last! The strainer with support spring appears to be a fixed part of the plug? and has a brass washer top, appears to be soldered to the strainer end that sleeves over the pick up tube in the tank. My one was 'stuck' on the pick up tube and ripped apart as I pulled the cut part nut from the tank. Salut Bruce
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Post by 2robert4 on Mar 12, 2024 15:40:29 GMT
Thanks for the info Bruce.
I can see from your photo's that the plug is brass and as such is self lubricating when inserted into steel and therefore as long as you have a good fitting single hex socket or ring spanner there is a good chance it will come out whether the strainer will be undamaged is less certain.
Keep up the good work.
NP
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Post by canuck on Mar 14, 2024 20:04:34 GMT
So a little more progress, involving some more ugly, but good. The sender unit is as grungy as the rest of the inside of my fuel tank. Yikes! As well as rust stains there was some sort of 'deposit' on the sender unit casting. This scraped off relatively easiliy after softening it with brake cleaner liquid. A bit more elbow grease and all was adequately clean. I enjoy the individual parts quality bestowed to these old cars. Proper fasteners is a peeve of mine. The OE screws that held the sender to the tank unwound fine, (1/4" hex head) and responded well to a wire wheel clean up. I eletroplated these for protection against corrosion. The sender cover has lovely Brass screws that cleaned up rather nicely as well. The terminal post and nut cleaned up well and the resistance of the sender proved to be good. I found readings 0 - 98Ω with erratic readings from empty to full. This I suppose is why the needle of my fuel gauge on dash flips about near 3/4 full. So far so good, and I am motivated moving forward. More to follow. Bruce
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