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Post by cygnet61 on Oct 27, 2023 9:28:26 GMT
The brakes on my car had deteriorated to the point that I stopped driving it as it was not safe to do so. I’ve now started to investigate what’s going on, and am acquiring which parts I need to sort things out.
First, I checked the rears which weren’t too bad other than one cylinder which is a bit crusty so has a very slight leak, and all shoe linings looked a bit dirty and past their best. I then checked one front assembly and the shoe linings were sodden due to leaking cylinders. I assume the other side will be the same. All drums are good and not scored as the car has only done 33,000 miles.
So far, I’ve had the rear shoes, and a spare set of front shoes re-lined, and have bought a new replacement rear cylinder and four reconditioned front cylinders.
I will tackle this as and when I have time over the winter and will probably have questions which hopefully some of you kind folks can answer for me. The first question is which brake fluid is best; I am thinking Dot 4?
Any hints or tips will be appreciated as I haven’t worked on brakes for decades. I’m sure I remember it being easier crawling under cars forty odd years ago than it is now!
Cheers
Gordon
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Post by cygnet61 on Oct 27, 2023 13:21:11 GMT
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Post by cygnet61 on Oct 27, 2023 13:52:13 GMT
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Post by vue from the north on Oct 27, 2023 17:16:53 GMT
The brakes on my car had deteriorated to the point that I stopped driving it as it was not safe to do so. I’ve now started to investigate what’s going on, and am acquiring which parts I need to sort things out. First, I checked the rears which weren’t too bad other than one cylinder which is a bit crusty so has a very slight leak, and all shoe linings looked a bit dirty and past their best. I then checked one front assembly and the shoe linings were sodden due to leaking cylinders. I assume the other side will be the same. All drums are good and not scored as the car has only done 33,000 miles. So far, I’ve had the rear shoes, and a spare set of front shoes re-lined, and have bought a new replacement rear cylinder and four reconditioned front cylinders. I will tackle this as and when I have time over the winter and will probably have questions which hopefully some of you kind folks can answer for me. The first question is which brake fluid is best; I am thinking Dot 4? Any hints or tips will be appreciated as I haven’t worked on brakes for decades. I’m sure I remember it being easier crawling under cars forty odd years ago than it is now! Cheers Gordon |
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Post by vue from the north on Oct 27, 2023 17:38:01 GMT
in my view the rubber used on cylinders nowadays is not a patch on yesteryear,& the rubber perishes a lot quicker when laid up doing nothing, i go with standard dot 4 & leave 1 side as you found it while working on the other side for reference when putting the springs back ! the hardest bit was bleeding the things, resulting in a kit that plugs into spare tyre being bought. good luck
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Post by canuck on Oct 27, 2023 17:46:39 GMT
Hello Gordon, You seem to have this in hand however if I may look over your shoulder on this ?  Yes DOT 3/4 is the fluid to use. These Girling™ slave cylinders have a long life. You may well get away with a simple hone to the bore and new rubber kit. The innards are basic BMC quality/design and easy to live with. I recently refurbished my Riley Master cylinder and a quick hone and a kit was all it needed. The rubber flex hoses between car body and slave cylinders at the backplate are best to be renewed. These hoses are 'special' such that they have a 'shoulder' at the cylinder cylinder, necessary to clear the fasteners at the back plate. Being Girling™ brake system, over here my easiest go to is the Triumph cars as these were fitted with Girling™. I asked on a TR forum and came up with #GBH136 as a suitable hose. I posted photos there, I can't here ! Check with your hoses before buying, FWIW the ends are 3/8"-24 threads www.triumphexp.com/forum/tr4-and-tr4a-forum.7/front-brake-hose.1999209/The most important adjustment, I think, is the crazy standoff these Girling™ system uses to align the brake shoes. Reference the work shop manual, it explains how to achieve the 90 0 shoe alignment.
Other than that have fun. 
Bruce
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Post by cygnet61 on Oct 28, 2023 7:52:56 GMT
in my view the rubber used on cylinders nowadays is not a patch on yesteryear,& the rubber perishes a lot quicker when laid up doing nothing, i go with standard dot 4 & leave 1 side as you found it while working on the other side for reference when putting the springs back ! the hardest bit was bleeding the things, resulting in a kit that plugs into spare tyre being bought. good luck Thank you for that. I do have a workshop manual but it is a bit sparse on detail so I took photos of the assembly so I could see how to reassemble. While looking at other posts I recently saw someone mention the Gunson Eezibleed kit that works off the spare tyre and intend to get one. Cheers Gordon |
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Post by cygnet61 on Oct 28, 2023 8:19:37 GMT
Hello Gordon, You seem to have this in hand however if I may look over your shoulder on this ? Yes DOT 3/4 is the fluid to use. These Girling™ slave cylinders have a long life. You may well get away with a simple hone to the bore and new rubber kit. The innards are basic BMC quality/design and easy to live with. I recently refurbished my Riley Master cylinder and a quick hone and a kit was all it needed. The rubber flex hoses between car body and slave cylinders at the backplate are best to be renewed. These hoses are 'special' such that they have a 'shoulder' at the cylinder cylinder, necessary to clear the fasteners at the back plate. Being Girling™ brake system, over here my easiest go to is the Triumph cars as these were fitted with Girling™. I asked on a TR forum and came up with #GBH136 as a suitable hose. I posted photos there, I can't here ! Check with your hoses before buying, FWIW the ends are 3/8"-24 threads www.triumphexp.com/forum/tr4-and-tr4a-forum.7/front-brake-hose.1999209/The most important adjustment, I think, is the crazy standoff these Girling™ system uses to align the brake shoes. Reference the work shop manual, it explains how to achieve the 90 0 shoe alignment.
Other than that have fun.
Bruce
Hello Bruce, Thank you for your help. I think all the brake pipes and hoses were replaced a few years ago so should still be good. Am I right in thinking that it is necessary to unscrew the brake pipes from the front hoses in order to be able to unscrew the hoses from the cylinders? I have just received two complete front brake assemblies that came up for sale on eBay so I should have all I need when I get at it. I haven’t checked the integrity of the master cylinder yet, other than to determine that it is almost empty due to most of the fluid being in the front drums! I will provide updates, hopefully with photos, as and when I make progress. Cheers Gordon |
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Post by canuck on Oct 28, 2023 13:28:53 GMT
Am I right in thinking that it is necessary to unscrew the brake pipes from the front hoses in order to be able to unscrew the hoses from the cylinders? Gordon, Yes you are spot on .  At each front inner wing, sort of low down, you will see the hard brake line with the union attaching to the hose. Undo this union, put a rag to collect the residual brake fluid, (eats up paint finish very quickly) in the line, then undo the nut and star washer that secures the hose to the inner wing. You will now be able to undo the hose from the slave cylinder. Note, there is a copper washer/seal at the slave cylinder to hose joint. This simple flat washer plays a mega important role. Either re anneal it by heating it up super hot and flattening it on anvil or simply renew it. If the hoses need replacement, often this washer is included with the hose. Be careful and have fun Bruce |
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Post by cygnet61 on Oct 28, 2023 14:36:25 GMT
Thank you Bruce, very useful information. I will add new copper washers to my list of parts to get. If I’m not happy with the hoses I’ll replace those as well. Better safe than sorry.
Cheers
Gordon
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Post by cygnet61 on Mar 30, 2024 13:07:46 GMT
It’s been a while since I updated this post so I’ll run through my progress, and lack of, so far. I ended up replacing three front and one rear cylinders, one front brake hose and had all the shoes relined. I tidied up the drums and was pleased with the way it was going.   Then it was time to bleed the brakes and this is where progress stopped as I just can not get all the air out of the system. First, I tried with a bleed hose with the one-way valve but no luck. Then I enlisted my wife to help with the traditional up/down, up/down method. This didn’t work either so I bought an Ezibleed pressure kit but still fail to get all of the air out. The pedal still goes almost to the floor before the brakes apply. So it’s plan B time and I am going to get the car into a local workshop and let them sort it out, along with some other jobs. Hopefully I can report progress next time. Cheers Gordon |
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Post by canuck on Mar 30, 2024 17:07:40 GMT
Gordon, You show a good clean result, bravo! Yes for one reason or other the Riley isn't straightforward to bleed the air out. I think maybe due to the master cylinder reservoir is so small the fluid level must be kept 1/2 or more full? I usually need to go around twice.  I use only the Gunson Ezibleed gadget as I am often wrenching on my own. I follow the recommended procedure of start at the farthest slave cylinder from the master, in my case RH rear, LH rear, then RH front to finish at LH front. Since I installed the disc brakes to teh car the pedal travel has increased. however I was warned this may happen. Bruce |
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kiwimc
Junior Member
Posts: 84
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Post by kiwimc on Mar 30, 2024 20:57:52 GMT
Not sure if I have told this story on this forum before but I had trouble 'bleeding' brakes on MM.
Repeated pumping would give firm pedal, 10 seconds later pedal would go to floor then next pump firm again... I assumed some sort of air bubble so kept bleeding, used a lot of brake fluid, extended father-daughter brake bleeding time, bought an Eezibleed too.
Turns out I had missed 1 of the 4 snail adjusters on the front. The 2 pumps were needed to fully expand the shoes to grip the drum, the 10 seconds was the delay for springs to retract. Pretty simple mistake that kept me amused for far too long.
J
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Post by cygnet61 on Apr 4, 2024 11:51:54 GMT
Not sure if I have told this story on this forum before but I had trouble 'bleeding' brakes on MM.
Repeated pumping would give firm pedal, 10 seconds later pedal would go to floor then next pump firm again... I assumed some sort of air bubble so kept bleeding, used a lot of brake fluid, extended father-daughter brake bleeding time, bought an Eezibleed too.
Turns out I had missed 1 of the 4 snail adjusters on the front. The 2 pumps were needed to fully expand the shoes to grip the drum, the 10 seconds was the delay for springs to retract. Pretty simple mistake that kept me amused for far too long.
J
Good point. I’m pretty sure I have them all adjusted ok but will double check. Thank you. |
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Post by tonyhosk on Apr 4, 2024 20:10:33 GMT
Amen to that.
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