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Post by johnmann on Feb 9, 2018 22:12:06 GMT
Here's a (lack of) progress report. Not getting much done, pretty fed up with the cold and dark. No luck revitalising the battery so have fitted a new one. Checked the function of the timing advance and set it to give 34 degrees advance at 3000 rpm. Still unable to completely stop leaks from the new heater hose, so I have bought yet another.
I had another go with the vacuum gauge, and the amplitude of the pointer oscillation increased proportianally with the RPM. I think that does point to a valve issue, so have decided to remove the head and fit new springs.
Now here is a puzzle: my 1961 parts book shows the valves with the dual inner and outer springs, but my head (1965 car, but may not be the original head) only has single springs. Is that correct?
Oh, and when disconnecting the radiator hose I managed slosh some coolant across the rockers where it quickly disappeared down the oil holes. So I'm now draining the sump.
John.
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Post by johnmann on Feb 10, 2018 10:21:23 GMT
Please ignore me I'm talking nonsense. Had a look this morning with a strong light and the inner springs are there.
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Post by canuck on Feb 10, 2018 14:37:04 GMT
John, This reads like you are having fun in the garage, hence progress. FWIW the OE cylinder head for the Riley is casting # 1H967
and is fitted with 1.5" diameter inlet valves and 1.281" exhaust valves, dual springs as you found. (The Wolseley cousin had very tiny valves fitted)
The date of the casting can be determined by a plate cast into the head; in this case 18 March 1959.
This is pretty much a MK1 MGA 1500 cylinder head with all things being equal.
What can happen with these old engines is they can/may suffer carbon deposits. A bit like plaque in our blood arteries. Neither is a good thing.
So if you want to save some effort up front, dump some upper cylinder lubricant in the fuel tank, or two and do an 'Italian' tune up. Then take some more vacuum readings. This exercise may save you some spannering and £'s. You can see in my photo the valve seat is not brilliant and no amount of chemicals made this right. I simply removed the cylinder head, cleaned everything up & lapped the valves. Of course having a machinist firm cut and install hardened seats for the exhaust valves is highly recommended.
Back to you
Bruce
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Post by johnmann on Feb 11, 2018 10:51:25 GMT
Fascinating stuff Bruce. I've just been out and had a look - it is 1H967 but the date code is circular and says 100 - 60, presumably 1960. The car was built late 1964 so I wouuld guess that's not the original head. WhenI bought the car, the owner offered to sell me a second head. The price was reasonable, but having already paid out on the car I declined.
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Post by canuck on Feb 13, 2018 17:53:53 GMT
it is 1H967 but the date code is circular and says 100 - 60, presumably 1960. John, The circular date clock is straightforward to decipher. so the above cylinder head was cast, November 22, 1966. B
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Post by johnmann on Mar 11, 2018 20:08:17 GMT
The head is off. Certainly looks in need of a decoke. One of the valve clips is missing, where it is I don't know, but it wasn't in the sump! The latest thing hampering progress (apart from terrible weather) was when my garage door failed and stuck wide open. Having failed in the past to get at the mechanism to lubricate it, I called in a repair company. They took one look and made a sharp exit. Second company spent some time wrestling with it and managed to get it closed, apart from a small gap through which it is possible to crawl, the door remaining firmly stuck. It's 45 years old and my only option apparantly is a new door. So for the present the Riley has been pushed outside, which at least has the advantage of better light.... Attachments:
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Post by canuck on Mar 13, 2018 14:15:11 GMT
Hello John, Well done you! Yes the head you show could benefit some loving. If you choose to do this yourself pay particular attention to the exhaust valves. Due to heat of the exhaust, these valve suffer seat recession much more than the intake valves. I recommend doing 3 things; 1) a thorough clean, (stating the obvious) 2) ask a machinist shop to do the valve lapping, new hardened seat inserts for the exhaust and probably new valves. A multi face grind is the way most are done theses days. Mega improvement! 3) re surface the head surface to ensure a flat surface and good mating of cylinder head gasket. The specs for the head, valve height etc. is covered in the workshop manual. The valve guides may be worn so ask the machinist to verify these, bronze type versus the cast iron OE type is the preferred replacement. As an add on you may wish to perform the below. The Weslake promontory is a known 'issue' and is best to be cut back. this will allow better gases flow around the valves and remove a potential 'hot spot' in the combustion chamber that can cause 'run on' or 'dieseling'. before; after; Have fun B
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Post by johnmann on Mar 24, 2018 11:07:46 GMT
Here's a quick update. Atrocious weather continues and it is still difficult to get into the garage as the door remanins stuck! However I am slowly removing valves. Bruce, some of your suggestions were done a while ago in time but in mileage only 4000: New hardened exhaust valve seats, Inlet valve seats recut, worn valve guides replaced and head surface skimmed. So I'm hoping it's still good in these respects. So far all the oil seals have been found broken with one part on the valve stem and the other on the guide. Two (so far) oil deflectors are dinged or nicked, I see that Moss suggest replacing the old valve cap 1H1319 with a later type 12H992 and discarding the deflector. has anyone any experience with this? It would actually be cheaper than replacing the deflectors.
The enormous cost of replacing the garage door won't leave much for the Riley, so I think it's going to be out with the wooden stick and sucker! Apart from carbon, the valves don't look too bad so I am currently in 2 minds whether to replace them.
John.
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Post by noddy on Mar 24, 2018 11:21:50 GMT
Hi John, I have fitted the later type caps - no problem fitting them, and no problem running with them (2,500 miles later!) Roger.
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Post by canuck on Mar 24, 2018 14:35:44 GMT
I am slowly removing valves. Bruce, some of your suggestions were done a while ago in time but in mileage only 4000: New hardened exhaust valve seats, Inlet valve seats recut, worn valve guides replaced and head surface skimmed. So I'm hoping it's still good in these respects. So far all the oil seals have been found broken with one part on the valve stem and the other on the guide. Two (so far) oil deflectors are dinged or nicked, I see that Moss suggest replacing the old valve cap 1H1319 with a later type 12H992 and discarding the deflector. has anyone any experience with this? It would actually be cheaper than replacing the deflectors. The enormous cost of replacing the garage door won't leave much for the Riley, so I think it's going to be out with the wooden stick and sucker! Apart from carbon, the valves don't look too bad so I am currently in 2 minds whether to replace them.
John, Sorry to read of your garage door malaise. Nice to read you are pressing on though, bravo! My understanding is this 'deflector' or shroud is there to help keep the valve stem lubed? The other function is it 'locates' the inner spring at the top.
This reads as if you just need to do a thorough de coke and a lapping in of the valves and new rubber seals. Not so daunting. The factory got wise and designed this shroud out and re cut the spring cap to locate the inner spring. As Roger writes many change the spring cap for the dual spring type and motor on. I did the same. I may have some 'spare' shrouds in my spares bin that you are welcome to have, gratis. Of course I will need to rummage and that will not be for a few weeks at minimum. My weekends are booked with family obligations for what seems like the eternal future!
Bruce
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Post by johnmann on Jun 11, 2018 19:55:11 GMT
Well overdue for a progress update. After a long time with the car stuck out in the seemingly endless rain, all I could do was open the boot every time I passed and watch the water run out the drain hole. But the weather got better, and the garage door was fixed.
The head went back together with new valves, valve springs and oil seals. There was spalling on some (not all) of the tappets so I replaced the lot. I fitted a vacuum gauge (an old Redex “Car Care Robot”!).
The initial run was a great disappointment. Severely down on power and the vacuum gauge going mad, oscillating over 180 degrees of the dial. I'll say more about that in another post.
All ignition leads were new and I swapped the distributor cap to no effect. As a last resort I fitted new spark plugs. Still no change. However, after a test run I noticed the rear two plugs were taking on colour but the front two were still shiny. Could the problem be carburettor-related? I took off the dashpots and removed the pistons to check for blocked jets. Both were fine, but I noticed the fuel level was much lower in the front carb than in the back. Out with the Haynes manual for the float level check procedure but as usual the business with the 3mm rod made no sense. This time I went to Google to discover that I should be using an 11mm rod! This showed considerable adjustment needed on both front and rear. I had made the fatal mistake of assuming they were “probably set right” when the carbs came back from professional overhaul.
Back together again and what an amazing difference! The car now runs better than ever. One question remained, why had the problem not shown up to this extent before? Then I remembered (see the beginning of this thread) that I had found the choke mechanism sticking on the front carb, so it would have been running with the jet permanently lowered, masking the problem to some extent.
So the car is running on the road again, still a few little things to sort but I am fairly happy at the moment.
John.
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