CHR 664C back on the road project.

[johnmann]

I thought I would document my efforts to get my One Point Five back on the road. Every job I do seems to throw up another one so I hope it may be of some interest, if only to make you say "You don't want to do it like that!"

If not interested please ignore!

Next post will give a quick look at the background then on to the rear brakes.  All comments welcome.

John.

[johnmann]

A couple of years ago a wheel cylinder failed on the front nearside. I completely rebuilt this brake, including removing and painting the backplate. At the same time I fitted new shoes to all wheels.

The hydraulics on the other three wheels were left alone. I guess I wanted to prove out the shoe change first. But there was a nagging feeling at the back of my mind that if one cylinder had failed, others might be in a similar state.

At MOT the brakes were fine, but the car failed on rust in the non-structural rear valance. It has always been like that in my ownership but tighter MOT rules flagged this as a failure because of proximity to the spring hanger.

Following this the car was SORNed for a couple of years but with regular runs up and down the drive. Then in summer 2017 I decided that the cosmetic condition of the engine bay was poor with much visible rust. Everything was removed from the bulkhead for repainting. The heater was flushed and repainted also. In retrospect I should have fitted a heater bypass hose to keep the car mobile but I didn't and the car did not move for 6 months. The opportunity was also taken to remove and clean out the sump.

By December 2017 the engine bay work was done and the car could move again. At this point I realised that some of the brakes were sticking so, as I had intended anyway, I began an overhaul of the brake hydraulics.

On the rear nearside the cylinder was seized but I managed to remove the piston. The piston was in good condition; the cylinder Okish. The seal was in pristine condition. I decided to replace the wheel cylinder as a spare one had come with the car when I bought it. I was a bit concerned, remembering how difficult it had been to remove the front wheel cylinders. The rear ones are not bolted in place but held by interlocking spring plates. Some vehicles using the same cylinder have three of these plates and removing them is a bit of a task apparently. There are some websites showing how to do it but it doesn't look easy.

Luckily the Riley only has two plates which are easily tapped out. I replaced the cylinder, applying a small amount of copper slip to allow it to move on the backplate.

The rear offside was also seized and in a similar condition to the other. The cylinder was also seized to the backplate. The adjuster, which I had removed and cleaned at the time of the shoe replacement, was completely seized and no amount of force or heat would move it. Replacements are available fairly cheaply so I ordered one.

I was also a little concerned about the brake pipe which appeared to be the original steel one (the nearside had been renewed with a copper one by a previous owner). It had been painted at some time but the paint was now flaking off and there was some rust. Not too bad but I came across a web page where this very pipe on a One Point Five, apparently quite sound, had broken off seemingly just due to age. So I decided to replace it with copper-nickel. The long pipe running from the front of the car looks of a similar age so probably that should be done as well.

[canuck]

Hello John,

Yes documenting this 'waking up' process will not only serve to share with other owners but is good for ones soul. 

My Riley was stored in a barn for +25 years when I found it and did a complete re-commissioning. I can't afford to do a restoration, either financially or morally.

Share away.

I think I have touched every single bolt, nut, hydraulic fitting, seal or bush, gasket or bearing on these little cars so if you get stuck, ask away. 

Keep a nice bottle of amontillado handy to celebrate the little triumphs as you plod on.

Bruce

[johnmann]

Work is still going on with the front brakes, so I'll move on to other things.

Engine running tests revealed a problem with the ignition switch, which kept cutting out. To get at it, I first freed up the dashboard. This is not covered in the Haynes manual, but it is secured with 2 screws right along the top (hidden by the vinyl top rail) and a bracket at the bottom on each side (3 screws into the body but only one into the wooden dashboard). It will then come away with the top rail attached. It makes it easier if the window-pillar vinyl strips are removed first. I also needed to get behind the dashboard to deal with the radio speaker, but in fact, accessing the ignition switch is probably just as easy with the dashboard in place. The switch is secured with two crosshead screws into a metal plate screwed to the back of the dashboard. One screw bottom right, one top left. A little fiddly to undo, the top one has to be done by feel. A small mirror helps to see the bottom one.

I found the switch could not be dismantled for cleaning, at least not easily. It's not a common part either, although it was used on the MG Magnette and possibly a Jaguar. Prices on Ebay are quite high, however I found one for £25 where the Bakelite had been chipped. This was quite irrelevant to me becasuse it is all hidden behind the dashboard. The key can be kept the same by swapping the barrel. There are two little holes in the body. If you turn the key, then you will see the head of a spring pin pass one of the holes. If this is pressed in with a paperclip, the key and barrel can be withdrawn. The key MUST be inserted when you do this. When re-inserting, check for a chamfer inside the body which will allow the pin to click into place. As a feeble attempt at lubrication, I ground up a pencil lead and scattered it over the barrel!

Getting the dashboard back on was a lot harder than getting it off!  I have mounted a  small aluminium plate to the right-hand bracket which I intend to use for an additional fusebox.

[canuck]

John,

The dash on my Mk 1car is secured on the lower in the center as well, each side of the aperture/blanking plate for the radio. The vertical wood windscreen trims need to be removed for sure.

The ignition switch is elusive as you note,  the part number is ADH4502, (#7 below) and is used on other vehicles, Morris Oxford, MG TF etc. of similar vintage to our Riley's'. 

As you mention it is the only switch on the dash panel that needs access from the backside to remove.

FWIW a 'new' Lucas S45 type 2 switch can be used as a decentish replacement until a correct one is found. These are fitted to Morris Minors, have screw terminals and can be made to fit fine.

Keep at it

Bruce

[johnmann]

Thanks Bruce, I did wonder if a Minor one would fit. I also recall from my previous one point five that there was that central dashboard attachment; I think it gets left off when radios are installed. Sorting out the radio is another thing on the list, so I'll be having a close look at that in due course.
John.

[johnmann]

The choke – this is one of my minor niggles. I've got the proper choke control and cable for the car, but it's always been hard to operate, although that is not unusual for the one point five! I used to carefully brace the dashboard before pulling on it, just to make sure I didn't rip it out!

First step was to disconnect the cable from the carbs. This proved that the cable – on its own – moved OK. In Paul Skilliter's book “Morris Minor” there is a picture of the engine bay in factory condition. This shows that the choke cable was routed through a clip attached to the battery clamp. This makes sense for a routing with as few bends as possible. My cable was also much too long. The outer is a continuous spiral so cutting it was easier than expected. Carefully using a hacksaw at right angles to the spiral (not the cable) it is easily cut through and removed.

Now to look at the carb linkage. It moved OK but I noticed that on release the front jet was not moving back up fully. The carburettors have been overhauled by Burlen Services in recent years, so should not be suffering from wear. Recalling that I had seen something about “oiling the cork seals” I removed the covers and oiled around the jets, reasoning that any excess would soon be removed by the petrol. Operating the choke levers a few times and the jet now went back up as it should, although the linkage did not. I therefore set about oiling the various pivot points – quite a few of them! With this done the linkage returned properly under spring pressure.
Inside the car I applied some bicycle “dry lube” to the choke shaft. Although this made it no easier to pull, it had the effect of revitalising a ratchet mechanism I didn't know was there – you can pull out the knob in the anti-clockwise “locked” position past a series of click-stops. Neat.

Finally the cable was connected up again and I have a choke control that actually works!

But the car always has something up its sleeve. Once again the garage floor is wet and no coolant is visible in the radiator (although there is still a fair bit out of sight). I just can't work out where it is coming from. Doesn't seem to be any of the hoses or the drain tap. But at the moment it's just too dark and gloomy to tell.

[2robert4]

Check the core plug at the back of the engine below the rear of the cylinder head adjacent to the bulkhead.It rots at the bottom and leaks a little coolant initially only when the engine is rested it runs around the bell housing and on to the floor.If this is the case it is an engine out job i'm afraid speaking from experience.

[canuck]

Hello John,

I appreciate you posting about your struggle with the choke cable. I thought I was alone in this world.

On my Riley I need to pull with what feels like the force of a couple of draught horses to set the choke.  When I got the car years ago it had some aftermarket generic cable and I thought this the problem.  I did rebuild my carburetors and procured a factory correct cable but still struggle. My issue may be different while being the same as I have a LHD car, but  I think the routing of the cable also requires some reengineering.  I just added this to my to-do list.

If you have a leaky Welch plug at the rear of the engine this can be a bugger to remedy in place, as Robert writes. The bulkhead & steering rack pose interference and Robert advice to engine out is wise.

However the below may be a solution? This an expanding plug, Dorman brand #02483 and will fit the core opening in the block. One simply inserts it to the recess in the block and turns the nut to expand it.

www.dormanproducts.com/p-1011-02483.aspx

I have used these but but I will admit I have never tried this on the rear of the engine block of my Riley. So I muse that if this regular plug does fall out completely one might be able to install this Dorman plug in situ? with some struggle with a spanner?  The key to a complete remedy of a bad Welch plug is cleaning the recess in the block of the corrosion to ensure a good surface to seat either

the 'pound in' type plug or the expanding plug above. Again engine out as Robert writes.

Back to you chaps

Bruce

[2robert4]

I forgot to mention my post about choke cable stiffness re SU Refurb by Harris September 18th 2017 sorry.
"I have had this problem some time ago and it was caused by a bent main jet. After overhauling the carbs and future proofing them by fitting Burlen Fuel Systems latest Gland Kit (which replaces the Cork seals with Viton Rubber and the Gland assy is made from a material that is not affected by Methanol) along with new jets this cured the problem. If you are a member of the Riley Motor Club there is just such an article in their last magazine"
Hope this is of some help?

[johnmann]

I've had a look best I could with a mirror at the rear core plug. There is some possible evidence of weeping but I now think, contrary to my previous stetement, tthat the main leak was from the (new) hose on the heater valve. I've had leaks both ends of this hose and am beginning to wonder if the bore size is not quite right. I originally bought a hose from Club Spares but the overall dia was quite large and I didn't think it would bend into the required shape so I went with one from Halfords. I will continue to look at that core plug though, I can certainly see why 2robert4 says it is an engine out job!

[johnmann]

One important thing is to get the engine running as best possible. There are two things worrying me here:
1. My dry compressions 5000 miles ago were:  162, 162, 175, 161. Now they are 175.5, 174, 167, 173.  Should I be worried by that relative decline on number 3?

2. On the vacuum gauge there is a small amount of vibration at idle, but as the revs are incresed this goes up substantially.  At about 3000 rpm the needle is oscillating between 15 and 22.  Could this be weak valve springs? They could well be the original ones.

Still carefully monitoring the core plug!

John.

[canuck]

John,

Not quite enough information.  How old is your motor? not chronological, rather kilometers or miles.  Was it stored for a long period of time?

BTW those are good compression numbers. One usually concerns when a reading delta is greater than 10% so even with the later numbers all seems fine. 

If you really need to know, you can perform a leak down test to determine if this is a ring issue or a valve issue. Most parts supply outlets will have tester they will rent out.  

My money is on that during the last 5000 miles the rings have seated better.  Maybe instead of worrying just drive it more often? do an 'Italian' tune up every now and then? 

Valve springs? Well let's hear what others think, do the valves crash at a premature RPM, say 4000 rpm? If not leave as is.

Back to you

Bruce

[johnmann]

Thanks Bruce, the mileage is 126,600 (could be 26,600 but I don't think so!) It hasn't been stored other than last year when it didn't move or run as I had the back of the engine bay stripped for repainting. Certainly the plan is to drive it more often!

[canuck]

John,

I think those compression numbers are nothing short of brilliant for such an 'experienced' motor.

salut

Bruce