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Post by jonnyb on Nov 30, 2023 11:25:17 GMT
This transplant came about because the existing engine in my Riley needed to be removed to investigate vibration issues. Rather than have a long period with my car off the road I decided to find another engine to rebuild and then swap them over. This would enable me to work on either engine at my leisure whilst keeping my car on the road. Whilst searching for a suitable Riley engine I came across an MGA 1622 engine which tweaked my interest. BMC could well have used this engine in the Riley had they chosen to prolong its life. To cut a long story short the MGA engine is now rebuilt at +60 thou, 1690cc, balanced, with a Burgess Econotune head, and ready to go in.
I am now waiting for a milder day to lift the Riley engine out. Lying under the car recently in my garage, with the door open has not been pleasant! I am not going to detail the engine removal/replacement process because that is in the WSM but I will record any issues particular to this swap as they arise. If anyone has questions I will also try to answer those too. Thanks to Bruce for the tip on supporting the gearbox.
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Post by vue from the north on Nov 30, 2023 18:38:34 GMT
one thing i have never fully grasped is the riley block & mga block are the same however the riley had a 3 bearing crank & also some had a 5 bearing crank, the give away without peering in is the splines on the clutch plate, mr burgess told me this as he only did 5 bearing crank engines back in the day, the Q is when & why did they change from 3 to 5 as the power output didnt increase,
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Post by canuck on Nov 30, 2023 21:55:59 GMT
Jonathan, You are nuclear powered. Good on ya for tucking in late in the season. That plank holding the gearbox is excellent, couldn't you find a hockey stick?? You are going to love the 1622 engine in the state of build you have chosen. Be ready to have a constant smile on your face! @vue from the north You must have misunderstood Peter. The Riley was only produced with 1489cc engine. this engine was in MGA tune but had a 'different' camshaft that better suited the saloon car. The HP numbers debated at 68 or 72 depending on what literature you adhere to. As well the rear axle ratios between the cars was different with the Riley being geared as a 'cruiser'. I think the later Riley, MKIII? had a 23 spline driven plate while the early had 10 splines? The B series engine was in many iterations from its humble beginning at 1200cc to the mega popular 1489cc , (think Magnette, Wolseley Austin Morris) then 1588cc and 1622 for MGA etc. The last B series at 1789cc, (18G & GA) showed up for the early MGB, still in 3 bearing configuration. The 18GB was the first 5 main bearing configuration, (MGB) and the camshaft driven tachometer was done away with. I think the change from 3 main bearings to 5 was probably for competition? The 3 main crankshaft can be a bit 'whippy' at high revs . Bruce
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Post by canuck on Dec 1, 2023 14:48:47 GMT
Hello Jonathan I can't help myself to snoop about other owners garages. In the photo of your 'engine in waiting' I see that you have replaced the dynamo with an alternator . Your work shows attention to detail, and may be interested in an alternate rear support bracket for the alternator, #12G1053. This bracket is readily available, (fitted to classic Mini ) and will allow you to remove the long rod you currently have fitted. Of course this may interfere with your bespoke ignition coil mount but I am sure you will come up with a work around. Best lock your workshop door! Bruce
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Post by jonnyb on Dec 1, 2023 19:55:07 GMT
Hi Bruce the alternator was fitted by the previous owner, who liked using black angle iron for custom brackets! Thanks for the heads up on the mini bracket, that is more elegant.
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Post by canuck on Dec 2, 2023 21:03:10 GMT
I agree Jonathan, although this bracket shown does accommodate the coil.
When you did this alternator install, (negative earth) how did you deal with the control box?
Bruce
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Post by jonnyb on Dec 3, 2023 11:54:39 GMT
Bruce See new thread re alternator:
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Post by jonnyb on Dec 4, 2023 16:28:50 GMT
Today was a lot warmer; I think it went up to 4C, so engine out. It was surprisingly tight and I was very glad I used a balance beam to be able to tilt the engine.
Before I install the MGA engine I will test fit all the ancillaries and measure all the gearbox mating sizes and report back on what I discover, though so far it all looks identical. Fingers crossed! I have though noticed that the MGA crank pulley is smaller than the Riley, 1/2" less on the diameter which will turn the water pump and fan slightly slower. The water pump pulley is the same on both. The fan on the MGA is slightly smaller diameter but 6 bladed instead of 4 blades on the Riley. I suspect these differences may be due to a narrower radiator on the MGA and perhaps intended higher revs for the MGA (cavitation in the water pump?)
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Post by canuck on Dec 5, 2023 20:01:15 GMT
Well done Jonathan, twins from a different mother! The inside of the bellhousing looks quite clean. Check the quality/wear of the spigot bush in the end of the 'new' crankshaft. I am curious to the crankshaft pulley as well. My 18G MGB engine has a damper fitted while the Riley the steel stamped pulley. I never thought to measure the diameters. Now you have given me something to check. B
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Post by jonnyb on Dec 6, 2023 15:47:50 GMT
Today I decided to check the two engines and gearboxes for compatibility. The MGA engine came with a gearbox which I decided to keep until the transplant was complete. The first job was to compare the first motion shafts on the 2 gearboxes. The three measurements I made were: the spigot diameter on the first motion shaft; the projection of the first motion shaft beyond the bellhousing mating face; the distance back from the mating face to the beginning of the splines. These were all found to be identical on both boxes. The dimensions are shown (mm) on the following sketch: To compare the two engine backplates I made a thick cardboard template, with all the bolt holes, and checked it matched both engines, which it did. The picture shows the template in place on the MGA engine. Of course, it might have been easier to check the MGA gearbox would mate with both engines but it has 32 splines so unfortunately that was not possible.
Whilst I was fairly confident the MGA engine would bolt up to the Riley gearbox, this evidence will dispel any doubts when actually dropping the engine in. Once the engine is in place, the first job will be to check the clutch engagement/disengagement before fitting all the ancillaries ready for start-up. So far so good. PS Bruce new spigot bush fitted in MGA engine.
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Post by canuck on Dec 8, 2023 14:31:41 GMT
Jonathan, You are one thorough mechanic. Well done you! Appears that you are ready to plug that engine in hole. Go for it Bruce
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Post by jonnyb on Dec 8, 2023 18:55:30 GMT
Thanks Bruce, I have quite a few more prep jobs to do yet and I am not rushing. My brother is coming over when the engine is put in, four hands + two brains!
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Post by jonnyb on Dec 14, 2023 15:10:39 GMT
All ancillaries checked and fitted to engine. Shorter belt fitted for alternator and alternator mounting improved with "Bruces bracket" which allowed me to use a 5.5" bolt rather than threaded rod. Overflow pipes made for the HS4 carbs. Ignition coil mount modified to give more clearance for no1 spark plug lead and painted. All this lot will next be removed for engine fitting. Bay has been cleaned but some electrics to check and extra clip for fuel pipe needs fitting.
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Post by vue from the north on Dec 14, 2023 19:32:56 GMT
its looks very nice the maroon engine / yellow ht lead combo, be a shame to fire it up & take it on the road getting it dirty, can i ask have you gone fully synthetic / semi synthetic or mineral 20/50 oil ?
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Post by jonnyb on Dec 14, 2023 22:10:24 GMT
its looks very nice the maroon engine / yellow ht lead combo, be a shame to fire it up & take it on the road getting it dirty, can i ask have you gone fully synthetic / semi synthetic or mineral 20/50 oil ? I'll be sticking with a classic 20/50 oil, unless anyone can persuade me otherwise!
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