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Post by rgswisstex on Jan 5, 2016 15:20:52 GMT
You can’t move the vertical axis position with this tie rod, it is fixed with the 2 torsion arms and can not be pivot at the torsion bar connection. You can’t make the tie bar shorter or longer, you just squeeze the bushings more or less. Rolf
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Post by canuck on Jan 5, 2016 20:06:35 GMT
Rolf, I disagree. When I had my front end apart, twice actually, I was able to 'force' the spindle for & aft quite a bit. I agree that the torsion bar lower arm bushes locates it well but not specifically. Are you suggesting one could drive around without the stay bar in place? Are you suggesting that the compression of the rear bushing in this stay bar it does not influence the position of the spindle somewhat? You could well be right and perhaps this suspension system is so basic it does not demand a precision. Is this lack of precision all absorbed by the toe in setting? However I still need to ask; How do we explain the complicated adjustable one I show in the picture?
B
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Post by rgswisstex on Jan 6, 2016 3:26:06 GMT
I do not know anything about that complicated adjustable one, never seen one before, this is not a factory item I think. I think you are right this suspension system is so basic it does not demand a precision.
Rolf
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Post by noddy on Jan 6, 2016 6:51:22 GMT
Hi Guys,
A picture of the original factory suspension ...
No means of adjustment at all! Just a basic tie od bar holding everything fixed. Remember this is the same suspension set up as a very simple 'car for the masses' from the 1940's - the M.Minor
Roger
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Post by grommitt on Jan 6, 2016 9:40:53 GMT
I've just read Noddy's first post. It is ages since I last rebuilt the 1.5 front suspension but using Penrite No2 Shock absorber oil in the dampers made a great difference both to the 1.5 and my Healey. Cheers, G
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Post by canuck on Jan 6, 2016 12:55:15 GMT
Hi Guys,
No means of adjustment at all! Just a basic tie od bar holding everything fixed. Remember this is the same suspension set up as a very simple 'car for the masses' from the 1940's - the M.Minor
Roger Roger Neat picture. Fully aware of the 'roots' for this suspension design and FWIW I agree with its simplicity. Thankfully it was borrowed from the (+1M built) MM, thus allowing us to buy spares and upgrades +60 years on. I find it curious that some owners modify it in its current state, me included. Stiffen it by changing to poly bushes, thicker oil in the dampers, playing with the camber, lowering the ride height etc. and after doing all this still result with a simple suspension system. A coil over is the real solution but not budget friendly & impractical for most. I think the adjustable tie bar is an interesting idea, someone went to a fair bit of work to design and fabricate it. I still wonder what the intended result was and if it was it achieved. It could of course just be the 'cool' factor coming into play? Salut Bruce
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Post by biggles on Jan 7, 2016 13:24:10 GMT
Just a quick 'aside' question.. do I need to take any measurements before I take it apart?
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Post by rgswisstex on Jan 7, 2016 18:27:14 GMT
Simon, If you take the torsion bar off you have to mark the end of the bar and the lower torsion arm location on the spline, in the front and the back of the torsion bar, if you miss the exact spline tooth by one you could be off 1 ½” in height. Be careful with the torsion bar removal, very tricky, could be dangerous, and snap of your hand. if you want to change the bushings to Poly then the bar has to come off. Rolf
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Post by rgswisstex on Jan 7, 2016 18:31:02 GMT
Simon, Get a Riley 1.5 Workshop Manual, Section K.6 and KK.1 is very detailed how to do the Torsion Bar removal and adjusting. I followed exactly the manual and it turned out great. Rolf
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Post by rgswisstex on Jan 7, 2016 18:37:26 GMT
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Post by biggles on Jan 7, 2016 19:04:04 GMT
Thanks Rolf :-)
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Post by noddy on Jan 7, 2016 20:31:57 GMT
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Post by canuck on Jan 8, 2016 13:59:01 GMT
Nice to read that Roger and I shop at the same vendor. I mention this vendor in a previous post of this thread and second his sentiment. To save you some £ £ the shop manual is available on the download page of this forum.
If you are taking all this apart to replace lower pin as I needed to then ignore my following blurb. Perhaps a slight clarification to what Rolf wrote. If you are only changing the pivot bushings you do not need to separate the torsion bar, #82 from the lower arm, #57 (best to mark it all the same).
To renew the bushes the torsion bar/lower arm will only need to be moved aft enough, (the length of the lower fulcrum pin, that will stay with the torsion bar) #64 to fit the bushes into the lower pivot #62. I also suggest to keep things simple, (I like simple ) that you do not play with the settings at the rear end of the torsion bar. You will need to remove the rear adjusting abutment #91 from the cross member on the car (once removing the load on the torsion bar) to allow the torsion bar to move aft. There is three fasteners back there if memory serves, (2x #92 and #86 holding #90). Of course to do all this the car needs to be jacked adequately high.
Keep at it Bruce
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Post by biggles on Jan 10, 2016 15:44:25 GMT
Dear All, I started dismantling today and immediately realised how little I know and how much the Workshop Manual assumes I know. My biggest problem is that the workshop manual doesn't name things and then point at them, so I've hit a couple of problems and wonder if, with the benefit of colour glossy photographs, you could help me out. This is where I've managed to get to. The steering connection (track rod end?) is disconnected. The top of the suspension arm (?) is loose and one bush is out but I can't get it completely free. At the bottom of the suspension arm (?) the bottom trunnion bolt won't come out. I have removed the nut at one end but can't seem to shift the bolt out from the other Is there something I'm doing wrong in trying to get these clear. Presumably once I have the bolts out of these top and bottom trunnions I can lift the whole hub clear. Simon
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Post by canuck on Jan 11, 2016 1:37:32 GMT
Simon, You are doing well do not get discouraged. So let me have a go here, remember you do the grunt, I look over your shoulder. Reference your second photo; you need to remove the pin from the upper trunnion and the damper arm. You are almost there! What I think I see is that you have not jacked the suspension up high enough to remove pressure from the damper arm against the rubber over travel stop. Jack the suspension up so that the damper arm is free from this rubber stop, (about half travel on the damper) you then should be able to rotate the upper trunnion off of this pin, no untoward effort should be needed. Be CAREFUL, now the swivel pin will be free to fall outboard toward you and bonk you in the face. You can temporarily secure this with a bit of baling wire or the like.
To remove the lower trunnion pins, arms etc. you need to have completed activity above.
(reference the exploded view in my previous post for #'s) Next, you need to remove the stay arm & bushes etc. completely from the car, both at the front chassis rail and the front lower arm. Remove the split pin from the castle nut (at the front) and loosen it almost completely before removing the nut & bolt at the other end at lower suspension arm. Next, remove the socket for the stay arm, #68 from the lower arm. This is IMPORTANT, now you can lower the swivel pin enough so that no more tension is on the torsion bar. This is IMPORTANT!!! I repeat no more torsion bar tension! Now, in order to disassemble the lower bits the two lower arms need to be separated. This should be intuitive but; 1) Remove the nut on the inner pivot pin, #64, 2) remove the bolt & nut #72 and finally 3) remove the nut #60. this will now allow you to remove the FRONT lower arm. If stuck just pry between the arms with a bar, screwdriver or whatever. Still with me? well done! Now you will be able to slide the lower trunnion with the complete swivel pin forward off of the lower pivot pin, #13. Catch all the seals spacers washers etc. that will be loose when you do this.
I have just finished my glass of Sherry while writing this so I will sign off. This should get you along somewhat and once these steps are done report back. I will then try to walk you through the torsion bar bushes business.
Bruce
Edit: I undertook this slightly differently. I removed the brake drum, hub & back plate to make the spindle that much lighter weight. As well much easier access to all these nuts etc. I also didn't need to bleed the brakes as I didn't disconnect the line from union at the flitch panel to back plate. You may wish to do the other side this way? Unless of course your brakes are in want of some loving? B
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