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Post by rgswisstex on Jan 11, 2016 16:36:16 GMT
Simon, The first thing I did, I removed the brake drum, hub & back plate just like Bruce mentioned, that gives you better access to the rest of the suspension. I agree with Bruce, no more torsion bar tension! Also you don’t have to remove the steering arm item #24, I noticed that you have removed the nut, and there is nothing to be gained by doing that unless it is damaged. You may want to replace the steering ball joint at this time if you feel that it is worn out. You are on the right track; just take your time and take step by step; the other side will be a piece a cake.
Rolf
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Post by biggles on Jan 11, 2016 19:45:47 GMT
Thanks so much Bruce. It'll be a couple of days before I can try this - work and all that - hope you have sufficient sherry supplies in.
Simon
thanks Rolf - I think we were typing at the same time..
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Post by biggles on Jan 13, 2016 18:29:49 GMT
Hi Bruce,
not discouraged.. The upper trunnion is off the pin and is now tied up for safety. Does the pin and remaining bush come out easily or would it be better to remove the arm that goes through to the engine bay first?
The front stay arm nut is proving difficult as I only really have a full set of imperial sockets and because of the angle I can't get a socket on it. None of my car-boot collection of imperial spanners seems to fit - it looks like it's a 9/16 - may have to hit Amazon later and buy a set.
I see that there's lots of capitalisation around the torsion bar tension. What's creating the tension - what number is the 'swivel pin' in the diagram?
Simon
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Post by canuck on Jan 13, 2016 20:19:08 GMT
Hello Simon, Good stuff. I believe that pin at the damper is a tapered fit, (like the steering ball joint) so I think trying to rotate it while heating the damper arm or using the ball joint splitter will see you good. I did not need to remove the damper or the arm from the car, results may vary.
Yes the front of the stay arm nut is a bugg*r to get at. Removing the split pin is a task in itself. If memory serves the only way is to use an open ended spanner, and yes SAE sizes no metric etc.. You might try to remove this stay by undoing the bolt & nut , #58 & 60 at the other end. Once this is undone and free of #34 this may allow you to better access the nut at the front by angling the stay arm. FWIW this has to come off anyway.
The only reason I highlight the torsion bar tension is that once the upper end is removed if it slips off of the jack at the bottom and you are near, hands etc. close by you may inflict pain. .
Back to you
Bruce
Edit: I forgot to answer your question, the swivel pin, (AKA king pin, suspension upright) is #1
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Post by biggles on Jan 16, 2016 10:59:21 GMT
Ok, I need help again...
I managed to get the front end of the stay arm unbolted and have also removed the nut from the rear end of the stay arm #80 but I can't get the bolt out #79. I have removed the nut and washer #70/#71 but again can't get #68 to come out. I've been trying the suspension raised and lowered in various poitions but both bolts refuse to budge.
Should I hammer these out or something.. don't want to break anything.. have soaked in WD40 also..
Simon
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Post by canuck on Jan 16, 2016 16:11:46 GMT
Simon, My pleasure to help. First off put the hammer back in the tool box. It would appear that rust is your enemy. WD40 is not your friend. WD = water displacement, and 40= 40th try so not the good product. Try to find some rust penetrant, Kroil, Plus Gas, Liquid Wrench or the like and thoroughly soak all these parts. The other tool of choice is patience and I see you have this in abundance. So # 79 is a bolt, and you should be able to turn it prior to it coming out, Kroil will help here, if need be apply some heat to the #68 while turning the bolt with a spanner. Once #79 is out you should be able to remove the stay arm completely. This is good. You then can use the same logic to remove the #68. With #70 & 71 removed and with it soaked in Kroil you should be able to turn it prior to it coming out, again heat the arm #56 locally while turning it. I think you will find #72 will respond to Kroil as well. Once the outer and inner fulcrum pin nuts #60 are out of the way this lower arm suspension arm #56 should separate from #57. I apologise if I repeat some of this stuff as going back and forth between pages on this forum is not as easy as the old forum.
I hope this helps, report back
B
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Post by biggles on Jan 17, 2016 12:57:12 GMT
Thanks Bruce. I have soaked it in PlusGas now but a quick try this morning wouldn't turn it. The bolt head is pretty burred now - not sure how that happened I guess the next step is some heat but I'll have to get some kit to do this. Amazon is by new best buddy.
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Post by canuck on Jan 17, 2016 16:28:46 GMT
Thanks Bruce. I have soaked it in PlusGas now but a quick try this morning wouldn't turn it. The bolt head is pretty burred now - not sure how that happened I guess the next step is some heat but I'll have to get some kit to do this. Amazon is by new best buddy. Hi Simon, I do purchase Brit classic car mags over here and Halfords appears to be a pretty good outlet for this sort of tools, no? Sorry to read you are having such a struggle with this . If I were closer I would be over there in a tic to lend a hand. Often heat is the only solution. If you heat the #68, (not the bolt) to a nice temp the bolt should loosen. Mole grips on the bugg*rd head may be the tool of choice here. Then heat the rear (cast) lower arm locally to rotate and remove #68 from it. Heating each nut will, followed by another application of plusgas will certainly assist to break the tightness. Try to salvage these parts undamaged, not all replacements are as nice a fit.
'til later Bruce
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Post by biggles on Jan 23, 2016 15:04:40 GMT
Ok, progress.. first let me introduce my new best friend.. So now the stay bar is off the car and the sticking out bit is loose and can be lowered completely. Does this mean there is no more tension in the torsion bar? What do I undo next - the bottom trunnion or the torsion bar..? Also, in terms of the bushes - I should renew the rubber ones on the front of stay bar - presumably with rubber again. What about that connection to the torsion bar - is that rubber and should it replaced with Poly or rubber again? Finally - is it easier if I unbolt the hub at this point. Looks like there are 4 bolts at the back - will I need to take the drum off as well (though I'll probably do that anyway to service the brakes). So pleased to be moving again.. Simon ps. Just been in to the loft and found I have a top and bottom suspension kit for both sides - all new in the boxes.
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Post by canuck on Jan 23, 2016 17:39:23 GMT
Woohoo!! Progress for sure and you are moving in the right direction. Everyone has mole grips, (good buy!) and never willing to admit to using them but upon occasion they must be let out of the tool box! Again;
So if, #79 is removed, then the stay bar is now removed from the car. Wire brush and paint this now. Nice to be ready for re install. Yes you can remove the brake back plate etc. to make access easier, your choice. You wrote, "the sticking out bit is loose and can be lowered completely. Does this mean there is no more tension in the torsion bar?" If you mean the #56 & #57 then yes no more tension on #82, torsion bar. So the next step is to remove #67 nut (front), #60 nut, #73 & 72 nut & bolt and #70 nut and # 68 stay bar attach. When these are removed you can then split the two lower arms #56 & #57. I recall writing this somewhere before? I suggest you remove the front arm #56 first to understand how these attach to each other and at the pivot ends. This should slide easily forward with untoward drama. Reflect a little, take some photos and a good time for a sherry break. Note, pay attention to #59, 58 etc. these may stick together or whatever. You will now be able to slide the spindle #1, with trunnion #8 forward and off of the rear arm. Again pay attention to the #13, #58, #59 etc. FWIW this removal should be intuitive. To access the bushes #65, you will need to first mark the torsion bar #82 splines with the rear lower arm spline socket #57. Once this is done you can gently move the lower arm, & torsion bar aft that will give access to the inner pivot pin # 64. Note: when you move the torsion bar aft, pay attention to what is going on at the rear end of the bar. To allow aft movement #s 92 & #86 nuts & bolts need to be removed. In doing so #91 will fall free from the cross member and #90 will fall free as well. Photos may serve here. Try to keep #83 & #82 together, and these should stay together but marking the splines orientation is prudent. There should be no need to play with #84 and its locking nut. This is a fine tune height for the torsion bar and if the car ride height was fine before you tucked into this then leave well enough alone. Your choice on rubber vs poly. FWIW I used poly to replace #65 but choose rubber on the stay bar and upper trunnion #13.
Phew tired now, need to relax my brain. I am going to my car tomorrow so if you need some photos or whatever let me know.
B
edit: mark the splines 'just in case'
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Post by biggles on Jan 24, 2016 16:38:55 GMT
Ok, more progress today.. thanks to fantastic instructions and unseasonably warm weather. Everything is apart as you can see below, except that I have not removed the lower rear arm from the torsion bar. I marked it but they don't seem to want to come apart and I'm wondering if I need to take them apart. I will have to paint the torsion bar in situ and I have got the bushes off, so do I really need to seperate these two parts at all? So the next stage is to clean and paint everything I guess. I purchased a set of bushes from ESM which describes the contents as.. Bush Kit-Front Suspension-Polyurethane (Both Sides). Includes 4x tie bar bushes, 4x eyebolt bushes and 4x top trunnion bushes. The 4 top trunnion bushes are blue and I've identified them. The 4 eye bolt bushes are for the bottom trunnion and are red (I think) - comparing them with the old ones. There are 4 tie-bar bushes. Do they mean for the end of what I've been calling the 'stay-bar' - because they look completely different. Scratch that - they are the tie-bar (stay-bar) bushes..I have taken two rubber bushes out of the inner connection of the lower arm and torsion bar. They are similar to the top trunion bushes. Before I ring ESM - any idea what ESM might call these? Thanks for the help so far - it's given me lots more confidence. Simon
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Post by rgswisstex on Jan 24, 2016 18:34:51 GMT
so do I really need to separate these two parts at all? No, no need too do it just clean and paint. Rolf
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Post by biggles on Jan 27, 2016 17:19:56 GMT
I just has a curious converstation with ESM about the bushes in the bottom trunnion.. In the suspension kit that they sent me, I have the bushes for the torsion bar / eye bolt connection (which are red and lipped), top trunnion bushes (blue lipped) and stay bar (2 each side, blue un-lipped). I don't have bushes for the bottom trunnion - but since I have a new bottom trunnion (and since I've just taken mine apart), I know there are bushes there. He said that there are 'definately no bushes in the bottom trunnion!) Is this because he's talking about a Morris Minor and the 1.5 is different? They appear to be there (item 10) on the diagram above. If they are there, should I go with the rubber bushes supplied with the new trunnion or should I look for poly ones? Confused
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Post by canuck on Jan 27, 2016 22:57:38 GMT
Simon, Confused but correct. Reference my previous post, you should have quantity 2, #65 rubber/poly and quantity 2, #13 rubber poly. So far so good. There is bushes at the lower trunnion & pin but these are bronze versus the rubber/poly you are asking/thinking/fretting about.
Reference your recent post; the lower trunnion has bronze bushes #10 and should fit nicely with lower fulcrum pin #13. I suspect you have all you need, do a dry assembly mock up to be sure. Not wishing to confuse but note that the inner and outer fulcrum pins, #13 & #64 are a different diameter. Hence fitting and determining bushes should be straight forward.
I did this so long ago my memory may be playing tricks, Back to you
Bruce
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Post by biggles on Feb 20, 2016 15:53:13 GMT
Ok more progress today (and back on the correct thread). Most things are back together and I identified where those spare parts went. I am having trouble getting the 'stay arm' back in to position. The new bushes are slightly larger than the old rubber ones. At the suspension end I can't get the bolt hole to line up and at the front end there isn't enough length on the threaded bar to get the large washer and the castle nut both on. Is there a trick to doing this? Simon
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